@mbbush appreciate your time on this. Hopefully it’s the option without rewiring. Thanks!
I’ll wait to see if @Bry agrees. It’s the weekend, I’ll wait for the work week to start up again to see responses.
EDIT: I have plenty of aux switches available if needed. Also, box 1 or 2 for the red series switch is fine, prefer 2, but 1 is good if easier.
I will take a look. Do you have a sense of if the light is in between the 1st and 2nd switch or the 2nd and 3rd switch? Hopefully you can figure that out just by the physical locations of the switch boxes in relation to the first light.
So I THINK that I just had to flip the two travelers on my original theoretical drawing to match your description. Take a look at this drawing and see if it matches what you have. If you can get the drawing to 100% accurate then we can draw out the solution.
Both lights sit in the middle of the triangle of switches. Hard to say. I’ll get my meter out and see what changes when I flip some switches after unbundling some wires this week.
I disconnected the 2 black, 2 white wires connected to the switch in box 2, and split the connected reds, still power in light 1 fixture. So I believe the light sits between box 1 & 2.
Ok, thanks. Only you can determine from your inspection what your wiring scheme it. Given the complexity, I can’t tell for sure from the pics alone.
Take a look at my last drawing. If that’s what you have, let me know and we’ll see what we can come up with for a wiring solution. If not, let me know what changes to make.
@Bry Your diagram exactly matches what I (tried to) lay out in my post, as far as where it would make sense for the wires to be going. And the light still having power when all wires in box 2 are disconnected also confirms that.
The only difference is that, if you want to match all the colors, the hot leads of the two lights should be black, not red.
Looking at your diagram makes me more confident that either of my proposed wiring plans will work.
I’m trying to think of a way to put the inovelli switch in box 2. I think if you want to do that you’d have to do a non-neutral setup, which would work like this:
Aux switch in box 1. Cable from box1 to light carries Line (black), Neutral (white) and the traveler (red) from the aux switch. Connect the neutral terminal of the aux switch to line, as that seems to be how the aux switches work in a non-neutral setup.
In the light box, connect W1, W3, and fixture white (neutral). Connect R1 to R2 (traveler). Connect B1 to B2 (line). Connect W2, B3 and fixture black (load). Put a piece of colored electrical tape (any color except green or white) on wire W2, to indicate that it is not a neutral.
In box 2, identify which of the two cables comes from the light, and which goes to box 3. Connect both blacks to the line terminal, and both reds to the traveler terminal. Attach the white from the light to the load terminal (add colored electrical tape to the wire). Cap off the white from box 3 (you won’t use it).
In box 3, connect red to traveler and black to neutral on the aux switch.
I think it is provably impossible to put the inovelli switch in box 2 unless you use a non neutral setup, since all four terminals would need to be carried to the light. Line and neutral must come from upstream; there’s nowhere else they can come from. Load must go from the switch to the light. The aux switch in box 1 must be able to connect to the traveler terminal, which it can only do by going through the light box. So that means we need 4 wires running from the light box to box 2, and we only have 3.
Do not use the grounding wire as a fourth wire. It is illegal and unsafe.
I’m now pretty confident that this is a complete list of options that would work:
I wouldn’t recommend using the non-neutral configuration since you have other viable options. If you’ve got a good direct straight-line path between boxes 1 and 2 for the zwave signal to travel directly, and a spare inovelli switch, the two inovelli option could be really nice. I’ve got one of my three ways set up like that, and with the right settings, it feels just like a wired aux switch, but I get scenes and notifications on both ends.
I would not recommend associations if there isn’t a path for a strong zwave signal between the two switches. The association messages go directly from one switch to the other without passing through the hub, so that’s the path that’s relevant.
Okay, here we go:
I did confirm the traveler (T1) from Box 1 goes to under Light 1, Other traveler under Light 1 (T2) goes to Box 2, 2nd Box 2 traveler (T3) goes to Box 3.
Switch Box 1
Line (B,W)
T1 (B,W,R)
Under Light 1
T1 (B,W,R)
T2 (B,W,R)
Load (B,W) to Light 2
T1B and T2B are connected
T1R and T2W are connected
T1W and LoadW are connected (also w/ white wire to Light 1 fixture)
T2R and LoadB are connected (also w/ black wire to Light 1 fixture)
Light 2
LoadW and LoadB from under Light 1
Switch Box 2
T2 (B,W,R)
T3 (B,W,R)
T2R and T3R are connected
Switch Box 3
T3 (B,W,R)
Appreciate all the help on this. I curse the original builder from 30 yrs ago on a weekly, if not daily basis.
Ok, so it’s occurred to me that given the testing you’ve done thus far, it’s not as important to confirm all of your connections so long as you can confirm the the general wiring configuration.
From what you’ve described, you have:
Since you have a hot and neutral in Box 1 and the light immediately follows, I think the simplest thing to do is to put the Inovelli in Box 1, wiring it conceptually as a 2-way. Then you just need to supply a neutral and a traveler to the Aux switches in Boxes 2 and 3.
So I’d start by wiring it as a 2-way, temporarily ignoring the other switches and their connections. Once the 2-way is working, then complete the connections to the Auxs and reset your parameters for a 3-way momentary (i.e. 3-way with Aux switches.
that worked, thanks. Easier than expected, lesson learned to deconstruct everything first.
I’ll work on ramp rates from the aux switches, but appreciate your help, @Bry!
