@EricM_Inovelli I do have all the ramping/dimming rates set to 0, and am still experiencing the flickering on power-on. This is on 1.52. Should I maybe be using a different firmware for now, or is there any other setting that could influence flickering?
I’m confused here – you wouldn’t want the switch to ever be off bc of the mesh issue, right?
Idk, I can’t keep SBM straight anymore – it makes my head hurt lol.
Right, I never want the bulb to NOT be powered so the bulb z-wave chip is reporting and forwarding mesh packets, no matter what level the dimmer is at (0-99).
Edit: BUT I do want the dimmer to be able to be “off” (level 0, dimmed bar) and the bulb to be “off” (still powered but no light) so that the end user has ZERO clue that everything is still operating. It would act just like a dimmable dumb bulb with no SBM enabled.
Yes, and I use this very much. Its how SBM worked originally in 1.47 but then changed in 1.52 Whether that was intentional or not, its a valid feature with valid use cases.
Agreed. The ability to choose “on/off” or “always on” SBM is the best of both worlds.
Not necessarily. I don’t know a specific model, but its my understanding that some smart bulbs are NOT repeaters and therefore don’t mess with the mesh if powered off. But also noted above, “on/off” SBM is great for non-dimmable bulbs like fluorescents and some models of LED.
After all is said and done, I think the best solution is what EricM is planning for v1.54 offering a settable SBM parameter which can have the values “disabled” or “on/off” or “always on”.
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What I think we all are describing for Smart Bulb Mode is an abstraction of the dimmer as controller, user feedback (…the fancy LED bar…) and the electrical dimming itself. In Smart Bulb Mode we want the dimmer to behave as a dimmer would as far as the button controls and especially the user feedback (LED bar) but not the electrical dimming. The electrical dimming we want “bypassed” in effect such that current always flows at 100% with as little interruption to the AC waveform.
Does that make sense and clarify? I’m not sure exactly how that translates to the various parameters (which I’ll admit are getting longer by the minute…). But that’s the effect we all are describing. The dimmer in the wall becomes a controller and an indicator but in effect is fully electrically skipped so that power remains fed to the bulbs being driven.
Non-dimmable loads are a separate matter that might require either a separate parameter or perhaps simply the ability to set the minimum level to Z-Wave intensity 99. So off is off. On is full power. The bar still would function as expected and still be useful for notifications?
I absolutely hope to see the Minimum Level allowed to be set higher than the current upper limit of 45. I have several fixtures that don’t even turn on until 45 so I would like to be able to set a minimum higher than that, possibly in the 55-65 range of even higher. I personally think it should be ‘allowed’ to go up to 99 if desired, and that would effectively disable dimming the load.
However, there is a strong possibility (would need to be researched) that would also effectively disable the visual scaling the LED bar provides (not sure of the correct verbiage here: I’m talking about the “VU-meter” style of displaying the relative setLevel() using 1-7 segments in the LED bar.
Currently, its scaled so if the Minimum is set to 45 and the Maximum is set to 55, the the LED bar is still scaled from 1-7 LED segments where 45 is 1 segment and 55 is all 7 segments. But allowing Minimum to be 99 (forcing Maximum also to 99) I suspect that will also make the LED bar unable to scale.
This is where having the option of SBM = “on/off” is still a good idea. I still hope to see less restriction on the Minimum Level parameter but SBM = “on/off” has its place too.
Interesting to hear this. However, I do doubt it’s much of a problem for a zwave mesh if a client (non repeater) like a smart bulb falls off the mesh and reconnects back. I might be wrong and it might be a problem though.
I don’t think this was a bug. If “Disable Local Control” was enabled, you couldn’t turn of the switch locally. However, you could still turn it off via zwave. This could be useful in a few cases hence why it’s being added as an option in firmware 1.53 and future firmwares.
Yup, this is the best of both worlds.
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I am still having a beast of a time getting my Philips Hue bulbs to not flicker when power is restored via the switch, using 1.52. All of my settings are as I think they should be:
Dimming speed (both): 0
Ramp rate (both): 0
Minimum Dim: 45
Maximum Dim: 99
Default level (both): 99
Power on state: 99
AC power type: Neutral
What else can I set to make these bulbs not flicker when I turn the switch off/on? Is this a 1.52 thing, or a universal issue?
Maybe I should also mention: I’m controlling two regular 120V lamps (switched outlets) and two hardwired wall fixtures. Is it possible there’s something about this combination that doesn’t work?
You should not connect a dimmer to an outlet. They are only designed for light fixtures. If someone plugs in something with any real load it could be hazardous.
From the spec sheet:
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Max Wattage: See below – maximum will vary based on bulb type and whether the heat sink tabs are removed or not
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Heat Sink Tabs Not Removed: 400W Incandescent, 300W LED, 150W CFL
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One (1) Side Heat Sink Tabs Removed: 300W Incandescent, 200W LED, 150W CFL
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Two (2) Sides Heat Sink Tabs Removed: 200W Incandescent, 150W LED, 100W CFL
I don’t know Hue bulbs specifically, so I’ll speak generally to using smart bulbs with a dimmer.
It sounds as if you are trying to control the bulbs directly by using the dimmer’s wired connection to turn the bulbs on and off and dim. That’s fine if you are using non-smart bulbs. But in your case you are using Hue bulbs, which are smart bulbs.
Smart bulbs are designed to be continuously powered and then dimmed via commands issued by a hub or direct association. They’re not designed to be dimmed directly or turned on and off via a hard wired connection to a dimmer.
So when you are using a smart bulb with an Inovelli, the Smart Bulb Mode should be on (this insures the bulb gets full power). Disable Local Control should also be turned on (this makes sure you can’t cut power to the bulb via the switch). Depending on the firmware, these terms may vary but the concept is the same.
So your bulbs should never lose power. The short answer to why they are flickering when you turn them on by turning power on via the switch is because they’re not designed to work that way.
Because your bulbs are not ZWave, you are going to have to serve the on/off and dim functions via Inovelli’s scene capibility and whatever functionality you get from the Hue hub.
@stu1811 Thanks for that note. I am actually aware of that danger, and in this case, these switched outlets are never used for anything but the lamps (for many years now). So, while I recognize the potential for danger if someone were to attempt to use them otherwise, we are okay with that risk in light of the scenario. I would never use the switch for an outlet that wasn’t totally dedicated to a light fixture.
@Bry I think you are reading a little bit into my statements so far. I am not attempting to dim with the switch. I purchased the switch knowing that I would only be using it for on/off with these bulbs. Any dimming will be done programmatically through a Home Assistant deployment. But the on/off functionality should work (yes?). Is there any reason why a bulb that can be operated in an on/off capacity on a standard switch would not be able to retain that functionality with this dimmer switch? Provided the switch immediately provides 120V when on, and goes to 0V when off, shouldn’t this work fine? Is this switch not providing immediate 120V when I switch it to on, given the settings I’ve outlined above? And if not, why not?
So some of this is supposition on my part.
Is there any reason why a bulb that can be operated in an on/off capacity on a standard switch would not be able to retain that functionality with this dimmer switch?
You can’t compare a dumb switch with a smart dimmer. They work differently. I’m guessing that in the SBM, the Inovelli still ramps up, just very quickly. Remember that a dimmer works by clipping the AC waveform, so I’m guessing there is still some of that going on. It’s not working like a dumb switch with a relay. That’s probably what’s causing the flickering.
I’m not thinking that the new beta will change anything. I don’t want to speak for @EricM_Inovelli , but I think the changes are going to be more menu-implementation related and aren’t going to be changes in how the functions fundamentally work.
@EricM_Inovelli – is it true that the dimmer is still ramping up, even if the ramp rates are both set to 0 (“instant on”)? Is that what causes the flicker?
If the dimmer switches are simply incapable of true instant-on/off, then they won’t meet my needs, sadly. I’d have to go back to the standard Red Series switch and lose the ability to send the native dim commands to my hub, which would be a real bummer.
I’m not an electrician so maybe someone will tell me why this is dumb, but why don’t you bypass your Inovelli to make your switched outlets non-switched, put smart bulbs in your lamps, and switch will still control them via your hub and Smart Lights app?
Smart bulbs work well, but they are not a very integrated solution. For example if someone decides to turn the brightness up from the app on their phone, and then later someone else comes along and wants to turn the brightness down from a switch on the wall Inovelli does that. A smart bulb is really only good if everyone is always controlling the lights from their phone/app.
That hasn’t been my experience using Red Series dimmers with Smartthings, Nest Hubs/Google Minis, and Sengled multicolor LED Bulbs. I set the bulbs to mirror the switch in the Smart Lighting app. If I change the bulbs via the phone or via voice commands to Google, it doesn’t impede my ability to make further changes via the switch. Likewise, if I turn on and change brightness from the switch, I have no issue making further changes from the phone or by voice.
That is great @ezapiler . I should have read the whole thread, I missed the discussion part about using both smart switch and smart bulbs together. I thought it was that long old debate about using one vs the other. That’s what I get for speed reading 
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So my point was to OP, he can do same setup and bypass the switch to make his outlets non-switched, still get all the functional benefits of the Inovelli. Is there any electrical reason why the Inovelli needs to have a Load connected to function safely?
You lose energy stats, for one. Code compliance might also have something to say about bypassing a switch, but it all depends on code jurisdiction.
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