Etching over stickers any day. I would never use stickers even if they were included because I can never seem to get them on correctly and then it would bother me every time I looked at it. Also, I think the etching makes sense because you already sell replacement paddles, and this would be a step up from that.
Very true, and I’ve been thinking this. My ideas on it are incomplete at best. A clever etching design (I don’t have an idea for that yet) could indicate the tapping options but that’s pretty inflexible and who would want to have to purchase another button if the functions change a more flexible idea is to have a row of indicator lights associated to each “scene”, but that doesn’t help much with discover ability unless there’s also some labelling.
I’m a big believer in smart devices only adding functionality, and never taking it away or making things harder to understand. So my biggest issue is still with the dimmer switch being both two buttons, AND sideways. I’m apparently in the minority in thinking that Caseta switches are ugly, but they do properly communicate “this is on/off on a light” because the buttons are aligned vertically, and distinguished from other buttons as being a pair, by having no border between them. The more I think about it, I’m not certain sideways is the best layout.
So with that in mind, spitballing some ideas even further afield: How much cheaper would it be as a dedicated scene controller with no dimmer switch? Just three or four toggles, but hooked up to mains power so you never need to worry about batteries? This allows you to have the LED or not, since it could match existing switch styles for branding, or no LED since it’s a different device entirely. Then if people want to make the top or bottom scene controller into a lightswitch, it’s very easy to do through Zwave, but you’re not pigeonholed into a dimmer use case due to the hardware. Presumably this makes the hardware way cheaper as well.
Another alternative I like less than that idea is switching to only two scene controllers, but making the light switch a smaller vertical rocker, with two scene controllers below. This is basically a shuffling of the Caseta style, but instead of the weird diagonal you have a small rocker.
Either of those make it way easier for a visitor in my house (someday, Covid, someday) to take a glance and know how to use my switch. Virtually every household switch is up = on and down = off. There should be a very good reason to change that, and I’m not sure I see it here.
Put 2 microswitch/buttons under each of the physical buttons (one on the left side, one on the right)
Buttons are replaceable/etch-able
Each of the 4 physical buttons gets its own association group (button 1 is group 2, button 2 is group 3, etc)
Config option to set how zwave commands are forwarded to associated devices (to prevent infinite loops)
Multi-channel association (so it can be used to control the LZW36 properly)
Configuration setting to select which (if any) physical button will actuate the internal relay
Config option to “group” the microswitches under each button together, so each physical button can be treated as a toggle button for those of us that have trouble aiming our fingers (technical note: in order to toggle a light with associations, I think you need to send a Basic Get command, and then send a Set command with the opposite value, similar to how the Eaton RF9500AW works)
1 RGB LED under each physical button, plus 3 RGB LEDs in the notification/dimmer bar (maximum of 7 LEDs without additional chip)
LED under each button can be tied to its association group (to function as on/off indicator) or be set manually by zwave command
Config option to choose which association group the LED Strip displays brightness setting for (group 2, 3, 4, 5, physical relay, last used, or allow a user to send a user-defined value)
Same. I think my other gripe with them is that the buttons don’t have any tactility—in the dark, you can’t put your hand on top of them and know that you’ve found on/off easily. I really like the RGBGenie micro controllers for that reason—the first button you feel is button #2.
Which is something worth bringing up for this scene controller… some raised buttons (leviton fan controllers do this, as did the Enerwaves) would be really slick, as to know which button you’re on.
If I remember correctly, the difference between these is in the waveform given to the load: the line voltage arrives as an (approximate) sine wave at 60Hz, and the dimmer does its job by cutting off the rising edge or the falling edge of the waveform. For those of you who are curious, I found an article with lots of figures showing the waveforms generated, talking about the pros and cons of various methods of dimming, and generally bemoaning the state of affairs… in 2008, which the author claims hadn’t improved much by 2017 when he revised it. So yeah, such universal dimmers exist, but the hardware would need to support it.
This came up in another thread. I label all my faceplates with a label maker–I’m kinda OCD like that–but it would be so much nicer if the paddles could be labelled. I have a 5-gang box in the living room with a three-way to the kitchen lights, and controls for three lights sources and a fan; it would be nice if the paddles themselves could be labeled “kitchen lights” (with a light bulb icon), “corner lamp” (with a table lamp icon), “center light” (bulb icon again), “ceiling fan” (fan icon), and “perimeter lights” (bulb icon). (This assumes that Project Windy City comes out soon, and with paddles that are compatible with current dimmers…)
Afterall, once I’ve replaced all my switches with Red Series, how am I going to spend more money on Inovelli???
I think so too, which is why I never went that route. My “dumb” dimmers are all Maesto, so when I wanted something smarter, the obvious choice would have been to stick with Leviton and go for Caseta. But they are just too darned ugly for my taste. The same design on the Pico as a detached remote is OK, but for something mounted on the wall with a faceplate, it just looks wrong to me because it doesn’t look like a light switch.
Lutron had a dimmer that would automatically switch between MLV and ELV. The RadioRA 2 version was the RRD-6NA. Their newest dimmer, also a replacement for the 6NA, is the RRD-PRO can also switch between phases. But the setting must be manually set, by the controller software or directly on the dimmer. I believe they made the choice because the automatic switching was not reliable enough due to the variation in lighting devices.
A potential benefit to MOSFET vs Triac is that you might be able to set Leading-edge (MLV) vs Trailing-edge (ELV) with a firmware update or config option (even on existing dimmers) without changing any hardware. I say “might” because this is based on my expertise on using search engines and reading Wikipedia articles, and not on any first-hand knowledge.
My understanding of the current firmware (again, it is just a guess):
Circuitry in the dimmer detects when the line voltage crosses the 0v threshold and turns the MOSFET off.
Dimmer waits an amount of time (depending on the brightness level), then turns the MOSFET on.
This creates a Leading-edge (MLV) dimming solution.
To create a Trailing-edge (ELV) dimming solution:
Circuitry in the dimmer detects when the line voltage crosses the 0v threshold and turns the MOSFET on.
Dimmer waits an amount of time (depending on the brightness level), then turns the MOSFET off.
There might be other firmware considerations, such as how 3-way switches (aux or dumb) are detected, but if something like this could be achieved in firmware I think it would significantly increase bulb compatibility (and prevent some of the buzzing sounds that some bulbs produce)
I also think this is only possible when using MOSFETs. If the dimmers used Triacs, it would likely require additional hardware.
As a point of reference, I have quite a few UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) switch/controller combos in my home, and my favorites are from Simply Automated. You install the US2-40 Universal UPB Dimmer Controller Base (“Base” being the key thing I want to focus on here) and then select from 13 different button configurations, ordered separately in whatever color you need. You use UPB programming software (such as UPStart) to program the switch to the desired functionality, in terms which buttons control the local load, what double/triple clicks do, what scene commands to send, etc. (They also offer a label kit for those who are fine with that. )
I mention this concept simply as part of the brainstorming process. The US2-40 basically has 8 very nice-feeling tactile microswitches, and the various faceplate configurations have “pins” to activate the switches. After that, it’s all software config on whether you want a button to control the load, set the load to specific dim level, send a scene command, etc.
I guess my point is that given appropriate design considerations, there could be an “economies of scale” thing to consider here, where a Red Series Dimmers becomes a “scene controller” that ships with a standard toggle faceplate (which could then be swapped out by the user for a different faceplate down the road…)
I do agree that the “LED bar” on the Red Series has “the Inovelli look”, and the mock-up from Chris (post 23) looks really nice.
I had the same issue with my Insteon 6 button switch. Hitting the top and bottom buttons to turn the load on and off wasn’t intuitive when you’re used to walking into a room and more or less just slapping the wall.
I ended up swapping the junction box for a double gang and putting the overhead lights on a full switch, and using an 8 button keypad as a scene controller only.
I honestly hate the idea of dedicated buttons for the local load. I would make the load independent of the switches and use a scene to control it.
I would even go as far as saying make the 8 buttons with single covers and double covers that pop off so you can have any combination from 4-8. If a wide switch cover is installed both small switches underneath would have to be tied together in software.
Work has been keeping me VERY busy so no time to hang out here much lately. And then this thread caught my eye… Does anyone have a TLDR version of this?? LOL!
I’m really liking what I’ve seen so far! Especially the design below. Keeps the premium Inovelli look and feel. Also really like the idea of making various padel sizes to make the switch configurable.
No Stickers! My daughter just left for college and we’re still finding “Barbie Doll” stickers… Everywhere! Some in the strangest places… Maybe just etch the dimmer buttons and the rest blank?
Might be too late for this, but I like the idea of having some back light in the switch to make it easier to find in the dark without having to co-op some of the indicator functions of the main LEDs.
Agree, lots of good ideas here. I’ve been wanting a good z-wave scene controller/switch/dimmer. Like the ideas around backlighting and look/feel continuity with the dimmer. Let me know when you’re accepting orders…
But, I agree the bottom 2 buttons should have an associated LED bar so you know when the light is on, etc.
How about UNDER the two buttons (all the way from the left to the right at the bottom). That would allow a bit better “dimmer level” indication and would be more in line with your other dimmers.
I think this is a great concept. However, as I move bulb by bulb, fixture by fixture, to smart bulbs, I have no interest in local dimming circuits. I’m far more interested in the most reliable and simple means of associating physical buttons/dimmer controls with bulbs of various ecosystems.
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Maybe just etch the dimmer buttons and the rest blank?