Z-Wave 800 Series Button Controller + Dimmer Switch | Project Walt

So Hot Right Now Projects & Roadmaps
21

Yes indeed! That was my dream scene controller, until Insteon went under. Never bought into Insteon (thankfully). I was frustrated that there was nothing similar on the market.

Me too, I’m on the tail end of a large addition, and I am hoping this product will be ready within the year so I can install these through the house. As a firmware engineer who is currently building a house, this really is the dream lighting control product for me.

As far as feature requests go:

  • The tactile feel of the keys is important to me, having a substantial tactile click (not necessarily loud) and a decent amount of key travel would be my preference. This is one of the things I dislike about the scene controller Zooz makes, they feel weak.
  • The ability to order engraved and/or printed keys is a must for me (doesn’t have to be available from day 1, but label makers really ruin the aesthetic). I believe Insteon sold a packs of keys with premade common words, and then you could pay more for custom ones.
  • Most anything can be done with automation servers, so I’m not sure your firmware would need specialization for this; but I intend to configure audio control through these. Being able to use volume up/down, next/previous, and play/pause for built-in speakers and home theaters with a matching switch is very appealing.
  • The Insteon controllers were notorious for dying at regular intervals from cheap electrolytics which were subjected to higher temps by proximity to power components. So I guess don’t cheap out on caps :slight_smile:
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Project Update:

Initial timeline has been released by the manufacturer and mass production is scheduled for April 30, 2024.

Here are the various milestones:

  1. Project Build Review
    Est Completion Date: Sept. 16, 2023
    Status: NOT STARTED

  2. Detailed Design
    Details: ID/Structure Design, PCB Layout & PCBA Making, Firmware Design & Test
    Est Completion Date: Nov. 15, 2023
    Status: NOT STARTED

  3. Project Build Review
    Est Completion Date: Nov 25, 2023
    Status: NOT STARTED

  4. Hand Sample Testing & Verification
    Est Completion Date: Nov 30, 2023
    Status: NOT STARTED

  5. Packaging Design
    Est Completion Date: Dec 14, 2023
    Status: NOT STARTED

  6. Tooling Build
    Est Completion Date: Dec 25, 2023
    Status: NOT STARTED

  7. Trial Run
    Details: Materials Purchasing & Trial Run on Production Line
    Est Completion Date: Jan 15, 2024
    Status: NOT STARTED

  8. Certification
    Details: Zigbee, FCC/IC, ETL
    Est Completion Date: Mar 15, 2024
    Status: NOT STARTED

  9. Mass Production
    Est Completion Date: April 30, 2024
    Status: NOT STARTED

5 Likes
23

Can you elaborate here? Are you suggesting these switches don’t need 3-Way capability? Sorry, kids just started school and I’m running on hardly any sleep lol.

Yeah definitely, I appreciate it! I think this is also a fun forum to discuss a lot of these ideas because they often lead to people piling on and taking the ideas to the next level!

I fixed our toilet last night, so I have that going for me!

Good news, the initial timeline has these out in May – going with the normal Inovelli timeline of being late, a year seems within reach haha!

Agree (not regarding the Zooz, I’ve never felt that one, so I don’t know, I’ll take your word on it!) – I think it needs to have a premium feel to it.

Not sure if you have any of our current switches, but is that the feel you’re looking for?

Also agree – I’m working on it, but these engravers seem like they don’t want to sell me anything. I’ve set up multiple appointments, but they all flake out. Really weird.

Good news, this is a hard requirement from the B2B company that is funding this one – they deal with a lot of audio/visual installations and want these to control volume on various devices.

Lol noted.

2 Likes
24

Did you really mean Z-Wave certification, or is this update posted on the wrong thread???

1 Like
25

Yes. That is exactly what I am telling you. I will try to explain how it works but i think a drawing will explain it better.

A typical three-way switch has power coming to one switch (A) and the load on the other switch (B).
The wiring between A and B is typically 14-3. Three 14 gauge wires, normall Black, White and Red, and one bare copper for ground.

For this example, the power comes in at A and the load is on B.

Remove the three-way switch, A.
Connect all the White wires together.
Connect the Black power to the Black going to B.
Cap off the Red wire.
At this point you may connect the switch of your choice. Black to Black and White to White. Cap off the switch output lead, Red, as it will not be used.

Remove the three-way switch, B.
Using the switch of your choice,
Connect all the White wires together.
Connect the Black lead from your switch to the Black coming from A.
Cap off the Red wire coming from A.
Connect the Red switch lead to the Black wire going to the lights (load).

At this point, the new switch, B, is the only controller of the lights.
Open the application that controls the “Hub Of Your Choice” and set up switch A. Set A to be a ‘controller’ for B and a ‘responder’ of B.

Now set switch B to be a ‘responder’ of A and a ‘controller’ for A.

By now you see that B actually controls the light and it responds to A, to set the light. You may now add additional switches that communicate with B to set the light.

This is a great way to add three-way capability to an area where no three-way wiring exists. This will work in most houses built in the U.S., within the last 70 years.

Note. I tried to write this as my brother taught me. If there are any mistakes, they are his.

26

It sounds like you’re describing Association (Z-Wave) or binding (Zigbee), both of which are possible on Inovelli switches. However there is a significant cost difference (nearly double) between buying a second smart switch and buying a cheap Aux switch (which does require the 3 way terminal and the extra traveler wire). You still get scene control, and the config button, just no led bar. And as a bonus, it’s one less switch you have to manage on your network and update. This adds up significantly when you have many independent 3 ways in a house or some locations with lots of switches (I have 1 with 5 and 1 with 6) controlling the same load.

For those reasons, I would argue that it’s still justifiable to keep the hardwired Aux switch 3 way functionality with these switches.

2 Likes
27

There is no need to argue your point. I simply explained to my long time friend how it is possible.

I would no more argue that this method is better, than argue that Z-Wave or Zigbee is better than Insteon. Or that the Samsung SmartThings controller is better than the Universal Devices eisy.

People use what can afford and what they like. I have been playing this game far too long to argue the politics and religion of others. I know what I like and I know what works.

When it comes to Control and Automation there are as many devices as there are forms of chocolate. Ask any 99 users which are the ones to choose, you will get 100 different answers. It is all subjective and we all have an opinion.

2 Likes
28

Yeah, agree w/@rohan. Cost aside, there are Inovelli users that don’t have a hub that supports Zigbee binding or Zwave association and want a 3-way capability. So from a business standpoint, you wouldn’t want to exclude those users.

And there are many users that prefer the ease and reliability of a WIRED 3-way solution. Even if the hub has one capability or the other, binding and association aren’t ground balls. Just look around here and you’ll find a ton of users that have issues with those implementations.

3 Likes
29

My post isn’t about cost so there is no need to argure thst point. It is about an alternate wotking solution. I am not here to argue otherwise.

I have 20 or more switches operating this way and i do not have issues. In fact, I can completely disconnect the controller and every switch and light will continue to function as desired.

This isn’t difficult, this isn’t about cost. It is about technology and what can be accomplished with hardware and forethought.

30

No one is having an argument with you, they are simply answering your question. People want this option because it costs less, that is why.

3 Likes
31

First, read and understand the message from rohan
Second I do not ask a question. I answered a question from Eric.
Third, my answer has nothing to do with cost.
Forth, read my answer to Eric. I purposely state, “the switch of your choice.”

I do not understand why I am getting kickback on my ANSWER TO ERIC. I would think that whomever reads it would think, “Thats an interesting concept for some.”

But what I am seeing is DEFENSIVE comments.

32

Again, there is no “kickback.” No one is arguing with you. It’s all good, Gary. We are all on the same side. It’s cool how you set it all up with all smart switches, and it’s cool how some of us use dumb switches and aux switches.

3 Likes
33

I think you do not understand the meanings of the word ‘argue.’

Other than that, yes, it is just another option. As far as cost, I have spent over $4000 on devices in the last 15 years, and if I were not selling, I could double that. In fact, I just ordered 15 of the mmWave switches and I thinking about making it an even 25.

34

Leviton released a new line of receptacles and switches this year and there is a feature that I think would be a great benefit on this controller: alignment tabs for multi-gang installations.

decora-edge-hotspot-2

Here’s them showing it off (0:59): https://youtu.be/IjDBRYLFaqs?si=Bv6jTNjMSBS_bG6M&t=59

Any chance this product could have something similar?

4 Likes
35

Very nice! The lever connectors and extended break-away straps are great improvements also :+1:

2 Likes
36

Yeah I’d love to… need to see if there are any patents though!

2 Likes
37

How does it work if you have a “normal” switch and then one with these tabs?

38

I look forward to the button controller being available around the April 2024 timeframe. I will purchase at least three (3). Have you considered an option to make a bedside version available that can just be plugged in?

39

@rcata you could use something like this and wire it with a grounded cord.

https://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=479

1 Like
40

Thank You. I would be looking for something more aesthetic.