Need some help with a 3 way wiring problem. I’m installing a blue 2-1 in a three with neutral and when the dumb switch is turned off it turns off my smart switch.
I thought I matched up to the wiring diagram (load in both) but that does not seem completely match my situation. This is a diagram of how I see the wiring laid out in the box. The black and white at the bottom of the right box is tied to all the other white/black wires in the box. The right one is where I installed my smart switch and left the left one dumb.
Based on your description and your drawing, I think that you’ve diagnosed the wiring topology correctly. Since the 2-wire in the right box is bundled and with the blacks and whites, that is like the incoming hot. So that is a load in both boxes as you noted, where the bulb(s) is/are between the switches. Presuming that you wired as in the diagram below, it’s probably a settings issue.
Did you program the Switch Type as Multi-way (Dumb)? That is Parameter 22 and it should be set to 1.
Yup, confirmed I have it set to multi way dumb. The one thing in my setup that differs from the above is that the white wire in the three way on right goes to the black wire collection, not the white wire collection.
I also tried swapping the black wires and I get the same, turn off the other switch and I lose power. So it would seem to me that neither of these black wires on the right are the lead and that possible the lead in on the left?
Might be best if you post a picture or two of the right box containing the 2-wire and the 3-wire. Pulll everything out as much as possible. Need to be able to trace all the wires AND see into the box. Don’t leave anything tucked.
Pull the air gap out a knotch with a flat head. Located at the buttom of the switch. When you do does the LED light bar stay on, on that switch? If so, your line and load are swapped.
So I ran some voltage checks to see what is and is not getting power in various states.
Dumb Switch Off
The dumb switch has no power to any of it’s wires regardless of whether the smart switch is on or off
The smart switch has power to all of it’s wires and load/fixture work as expected when switch is turned on and off
Dumb Switch On
The dumb switch has power across all of it’s wires
The smart switch has power on the traveler and the white wire from the 3 way that is connected to all the other common (black) wires in the box. The black line does not have power and the switch itself has no power (I’m assuming this is because the line has no power)
Fixture has no power.
The part that is vexing me is the white neutral from the thee way connected to the other commons. I’ve found a few three way diagrams that do that as well but none of them really gave me an idea how I should be potentially changing my wiring to my smart switch. I also regret not taking a picture of the existing switch configuration before I dismantled it. It just all seemed so straight forward at the time
I was going to draw and label, but let me throw this out since you’re working on it.
I don’t think the diagram you’re relying on matches your topology. What I’m seeing with measuring is a Line/Load in the same box, NOT a Line/Load in both boxes aka a light in the middle.
I see two Romex involved with this switch. There is a 2-wire coming in from the top left and a 3-wire coming in from the bottom left. I am thinking that the 2-wire going out the top is the Load. I think you agree, because the Black from the 2-wire is wired to the Load terminal of the Inovelli.
Here is what is confusing you, I think. A white conductor is not always a neutral. When you wire a dumb 3-way with a Line and Load in the same box, you have to send the hot over to the other switch first. So the hot originates in the Line/Load box but is sent to the far box via the 3-wire. In your case, I believe it’s being sent via the white conductor. The other two conductors in the 3-wire are used as travelers.
So in your case, the hot is being sent to the other box via the white of the 3-way. If you look in the other box, you should find the white in the 3-way connected to the black/common screw of the dumb switch. I’m not sure if you made any adjustments to the dumb switch, so I’d check that first.
That being said, I think this is the proper wiring diagram. As you’ll see, it requires changing the wire configuration to connect the load 2-wire to the dumb switch, accounting for the different colored conductors in your case.
Are you getting power through the travel wire when the smart switch is off and when the smart switch is on, your getting it through the load on the smart switch?
Ok, the white wire to the dumb switch makes sense and the line/load same box. So based on what you said, I agree that the upper left is the light and the lower left is to the dumb switch and I have the line into the box is the far right.
So I rewired for line/load same box and the smart switch has power regardless so that problem is solved and the dumb switch can turn on and off the fixture but the smart switch itself does not seem to be able to control the switch, nor does the led update to reflect the status of the light itself when the dumb switch turns off and on the light.
Took a couple new pics and drew out how I have it wired.
Thanks. So compare the Inovelli schematic to your drawing. What has to happen is that the 2-wire load needs to be connected the the conductor coming back from the black/common terminal of the dumb switch.
So in your case, you are using the Red and Black as travelers from the dumb switch. The should be connected to the Load and Traveler terminals of the Inovelli (which you need to fix). That leaves the White of the 3-wire. It’s connected to the black/common screw of the dumb switch and THAT conductor gets connected to the Black of the 2-wire Load.
That’s the logic. The short answer is to remove the White from the Load of the Inovelli and connect it to the black of the Load 2-wire. Then connect the Black of the 3-wire to the Load of the Inovelli.
Ok, that makes sense, made that update. This unfortunately did nothing. The dumb switch continued being able to operate the light but the smart switch did nothing.
Just to rule out that I don’t have a problem with the switch itself I swapped it out for another smart switch (made sure it’s enabled for dumb) to see what I’d get. With the new switch if I turned on the dumb switch the light fixture and the smart switch led blinked on and off.
I use a Hubitat. So the reset and back to factory and it now has this switch doing the same thing the other one I tried did. The fixture and the led are flashing/blinking when I turn on the light at the smart switch. Turning on the light at the dumb switch is just fine and it does not blink.
I did not pair the switch with the hub again after the reset but I did update the config to 3way dumb (the config steps in the manual). So all params are default except param 22.
I just installed 12 Blues to my Hubitat (C7). I had two switches that failed to start pairing mode after pushing in the air gap in (hint: pull air gaps if installing more than one switch. Then push in one by one when pairing. Pair one and move on to the next).
The ones that didn’t start pairing I just factory reset and it begin pairing. Only one failed to pair within the 60s, but the next attempt it paired in 10 seconds.
The best method I found was to start zigbee pairing on hub, wait 5 seconds, then push in the air gap switch.
So yes I was going to need to pair this switch with my hub again I was just thinking I should not need to to get this all squared away. I was figuring factory reset, change param 22, profit.
I paired it back with the Hubitat, initiilzed it, double checked it was actually configured for dumb and the problem persisted. I turned on all the debugging in Hubitat as a next troubleshooting step. It went all blinky blinky again for quite a while and I could not stop it. But once I was able to finally get it to stop it is now working just fine go figure. So it seems like I’m all squared away now. Thanks for all your help.
I’m moving on to a four way switch with the light being in the middle that does not seem to match up to any of the diagrams because they all expect the light to be on one of the ends. So I’ve got a four way switch at the point where my smart switch would go. The other two switches just have a 3 way wire in the box.
@harjms yeah I also quickly learned to pull the air gaps and pair one at a time. but other than that have not had problems pairing with the Hubitat. but I’ve also only paired about 6 of the 30 I’m installing.
go figure. So it seems like I’m all squared away now. Thanks for all your help.