LZW31-SN (Red Dimmer) x2 - 3 way with separate line/ load

Switches Wiring Discussion
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1

I just purchased 4 of the LZW31-SN Dimming Switches and I’m trying to setup the first circuit. I looked at the instructions here: https://inovelli.com/wp-content/uploads/LZW31-SN/Wiring-Guide-Dimmers.pdf

However, my situation doesn’t seem to be in that diagram. I have wiring like “3-WayInstalation(Line/LoadSeparateBoxes)” shows on the top of page 5, but I want to have two smart switches, so that I can control the same things from both sides. So a mix between the top of page 5 and the top of page 17. Is this not possible? I could put a dumb 3-way switch, but I’d much rather have the inovellis on both switches.

Thanks!

2

I may be misunderstanding, but you you can do that. Don’t be thrown off on page 17 because the load to the light is in the box where the power is fed. (I think that’s why you are asking.)

Just pigtail and send a hot and a neutral to the other switch over the 3-wire between the two switches. They’ll communicate over those two conductors; the third conductor isn’t needed. Pigtail the neutral and send it to the light, send the switched load to the light from the load terminal.

3

I’d love a diagram of this as well. Same situation as poster , two smart switches with line/ load in separate boxes.

4

From my understanding, just use P 17. With the load in the other box, just pigtail the neutral to the light. Connect the black to the load terminal.

I haven’t done this, but my understanding is that the two switches just mirror each other, so it doesn’t matter which switch the load is on. Someone correct me if I’m wrong … .

Disable the relay in the non-load box and set the association opposite of the instructions.

5

Ok, I’ll try this. It’ll have to be tomorrow now. I fried one of my 4 switches when testing with an amp meter (oops) and I already installed the other 2 in single pole locations. Need to order more now…

6

Is this diagram what you were thinking:

3-Way-Solution-F-with-Dumb-Add-on-Switch-3.png1280×720 60.2 KB

1 Like
7

Exactly!

filler text . .

8

You would be better using the Red dimmer in the left hand position and replace the right hand device with a Aux switch. This would be the top of page 8 with the middle 4 way ignored. I’ve modified the diagram to eliminate wiring for the 4-way.

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The reasons an Aux is best is the control is directly wired to the dimmer, the signal does not have to go through your hub. Actually in this configuration the Aux paddle controls the paddle in the main dimmer.

John

9

I think what you’re saying is valid - that if I want what I’ve said (two smart switches), I need my hub to play middle man? The left hand position (in my house) is the less desirable of the two locations to have scene control, but that may be a decent option.

I was really hoping to make every light switch in my house so that a double tap off drive shutting off all lights in the house.

10

The Aux does communicate via the wiring between it and the switch. Do you know for a fact that a 2nd Inovelli switch doesn’t? I don’t know for sure if it does or not, but it would seem to me that if an Aux can communicate that way, a 2nd smart switch could too, although the association requirement makes me wonder.

@anon64478871 Can you confirm one way or the other if a 2nd smart switch communicates via it’s wired connection or via a wireless connection through the hub?

11

I honestly don’t know if a double tap on the Aux will initiate a scene. Since there is not clear alternative perhaps you should just try it and hope is does.

In the meantime perhaps the Inovelli folks can shed some light there.

John

12

Yes, The dimmer has no capability to output a Aux type signal.

John

13

No. You can use 2 smart switches with z-wave association and bypass the hub. The signal won’t quite be as fast as using an AUX switch with the traveler wire, but it will travel as fast as a zwave signal can travel so we’re still talking under 1s. You’d hook up line/load/neutral to the switch that has your load wire. Then line/neutral only on the other switch. Then configure zwave association on groups 2 and 4

14

Just remember the LEDs on the dimmer won’t be in sync, so one might show fully raised, the other may show fully lowered.

15

I’m going to try this tomorrow. I just ordered another set of switches to replace more.

@harjms - I understand what you’re saying about LEDs not in sync. I might just disable the LED on these 3 way circuits. Having the scene functionality at each switch outweighs the LED - for me at least.

17

The GE Aux mimics what the master is. So if the master is a scene switch then the Aux will mimic the same scene.

Eric H. Edit: This is incorrect, sorry for the misinformation here.

18

That’s great! Thanks for clarifying. I will just set this circuit up as a smart + GE Aux then, which is in the diagram PDF.

19

Not sure which is correct but these two appear to be in conflict.

20

It appears the later is true from my testing with Home Assitant:

Node 7, when double tapping the off of the AUX shows no 7680 event. The light just turns off:

2020-02-23 18:27:30.421 Detail, Node007,   Received: 0x01, 0x09, 0x00, 0x04, 0x00, 0x07, 0x03, 0x20, 0x03, 0x00, 0xd5
2020-02-23 18:27:30.421 Detail,
2020-02-23 18:27:30.421 Info, Node007, Received Basic report from node 7: level=0
2020-02-23 18:27:30.421 Detail, Node007, Queuing (Send) SwitchMultilevelCmd_Get (Node=7): 0x01, 0x09, 0x00, 0x13, 0x07, 0x02, 0x26, 0x02, 0x25, 0x77, 0x96
2020-02-23 18:27:30.421 Detail,
2020-02-23 18:27:30.421 Info, Node007, Sending (Send) message (Callback ID=0x77, Expected Reply=0x04) - SwitchMultilevelCmd_Get (Node=7): 0x01, 0x09, 0x00, 0x13, 0x07, 0x02, 0x26, 0x02, 0x25, 0x77, 0x96
2020-02-23 18:27:30.427 Detail, Node007,   Received: 0x01, 0x04, 0x01, 0x13, 0x01, 0xe8
2020-02-23 18:27:30.427 Detail, Node007,   ZW_SEND_DATA delivered to Z-Wave stack
2020-02-23 18:27:31.072 Detail, Node007,   Received: 0x01, 0x05, 0x00, 0x13, 0x77, 0x00, 0x9e
2020-02-23 18:27:31.072 Detail, Node007,   ZW_SEND_DATA Request with callback ID 0x77 received (expected 0x77)
2020-02-23 18:27:31.072 Info, Node007, Request RTT 651 Average Request RTT 517
2020-02-23 18:27:31.072 Detail,   Expected callbackId was received
2020-02-23 18:27:31.469 Detail, Node007,   Received: 0x01, 0x09, 0x00, 0x04, 0x00, 0x07, 0x03, 0x26, 0x03, 0x00, 0xd3
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail,
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Info, Node007, Response RTT 1048 Average Response RTT 848
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Info, Node007, Received SwitchMultiLevel report: level=0
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail, Node007, Refreshed Value: old value=50, new value=0, type=byte
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail, Node007, Changes to this value are not verified
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail, Node007,   Expected reply and command class was received
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail, Node007,   Message transaction complete
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail,
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail, Node007, Removing current message
2020-02-23 18:27:31.470 Detail, Node007, Notification: ValueChanged
2020-02-23 18:27:31.615 Detail, Node007,   Received: 0x01, 0x09, 0x00, 0x04, 0x00, 0x07, 0x03, 0x26, 0x03, 0x00, 0xd3
2020-02-23 18:27:31.615 Detail,
2020-02-23 18:27:31.615 Info, Node007, Received SwitchMultiLevel report: level=0
2020-02-23 18:27:31.615 Detail, Node007, Refreshed Value: old value=0, new value=0, type=byte
2020-02-23 18:27:31.615 Detail, Node007, Changes to this value are not verified
2020-02-23 18:27:31.616 Detail, Node007, Notification: ValueChanged
2020-02-23 18:27:32.756 Detail, Node007,   Received: 0x01, 0x10, 0x00, 0x04, 0x00, 0x07, 0x0a, 0x32, 0x02, 0x21, 0x34, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xc3
2020-02-23 18:27:32.757 Detail,
2020-02-23 18:27:32.757 Detail, Node007, Refreshed Value: old value=false, new value=false, type=bool
2020-02-23 18:27:32.757 Detail, Node007, Changes to this value are not verified
2020-02-23 18:27:32.757 Info, Node007, Received Meter report from node 7: Power=0.0W
2020-02-23 18:27:32.757 Detail, Node007, Refreshed Value: old value=13.0, new value=0.0, type=decimal
2020-02-23 18:27:32.757 Detail, Node007, Changes to this value are not verified
2020-02-23 18:27:32.757 Detail, Node007, Notification: ValueChanged
2020-02-23 18:27:32.776 Detail, Node007, Notification: ValueChanged

Node 4 (a single pole LZW31-SN):

2020-02-23 18:29:42.459 Info, Node004, Received Central Scene set from node 4: scene id=2 in 7680 seconds. Sending event notification.
2020-02-23 18:29:42.459 Detail, Node004, Refreshed Value: old value=7680, new value=7680, type=int
2020-02-23 18:29:42.459 Detail, Node004, Changes to this value are not verified
2020-02-23 18:29:42.459 Detail, Node004, Notification: ValueChanged

It would be great if I’m wrong…

21

I’ve seen multiple posts that when using 2 Red dimmers in a 3 way situation the two LEDs won’t be in sync, but I don’t understand why that is so. If pushing and holding the up or down paddle on either one can control dimming, why can’t the same action send a signal to both LEDs to move in sync?

Though, BTW, I thought I saw one post somewhere that it could be done but would be difficult. Is just the complexity the issue or does it result in too great of a lag or what? If it is just a complexity issue, it seems with all the advanced people here they would have worked out a step-by-step solution by now.