Random question for you so I can better organize things for you guys (you’re definitely not the first one to be confused, so I want to get a sense of where everyone is looking so I can put info there!) – where did you start looking for this information and what can I do to make it easier to find?
My first thoughts were to put it at the top of this page – like some FAQ’s or something – another thought was maybe at the bottom of the product page(s).
Product page is where the actual table should reside, then I would link to the pertinent section on the webpage in the product community page where most applicable. It’s a featureset table for marketing/purchasing clarity, not necessarily support/community focused IMO.
So in which case the multitaps are synced between the primary (switch with the load) and secondary (members of the multiway without the load) switches upon pairing/bonding/binding/(insert verb) process? Are items in the ‘Parameter Lists’ shared/synced? I see a lot of creativity with the (very thorough/deep) parameters list, like one of my ‘bucket list’ configs where bathroom lights change to minimum-brightness-when-turned-on after bedtime so you don’t blind/disturb, though EEPROM longevity could be a concern…
Forgive me I’m one of those engineers who’s dangerous enough to figure something out (eventually) but I don’t have a switch to play with yet so all I can do is ask.
Agreed. It would be nice to have the picture of ‘2. Determining Switch Layout’ on the product page AND in the manual page as it is (perhaps slightly more marketing focused/worded on the product page). I’d also like it expanded a bit more to answer my specific question about notifications/multitaps/etc, not unlike the RED vs BLUE comparison table of the benefits/limitations of the different configs.
I’d also like to request more detail in the ‘Pre-Programming’ section of the manual on the ‘modes’ that your programming. As I mentioned before ‘Smart’ is largely used as a synonym for the Blue Series Switch itself elsewhere in the manual (eg Smart+Dumb or Smart+Aux), where in this sections I think it’s intended for ‘the switch that isn’t connected to the load in a Smart+Smart’ configuration. In the ‘Vocabulary’ section Smart isn’t defined (which was my next place to look) so maybe that is a place to clarify.
As mentioned I’m specifically interested the value proposition of ‘all Smart’ vs ‘Smart+Aux’ because for my particular setup and that’s driving my line of thinking. It’s only $200 difference for 30 (3x 10pk) Smarts vs 20+2 Smart & 5 Aux switches to cover my 27 switch points. The more independence between the Smart+Smart and Smart+Aux the more creative I get to be after deployment.
I appreciate that manuals aren’t easy and especially many hats are worn with ‘standards compliant smart devices’ as you are on the receiving end of customer questions/complaints that are limits of the protocol, wiring codes, etc and so you have to cover a lot of ground for a lot of different levels of knowledge. Most alternatives unfortunately just pull the Liability card and give little to no detail, but again I’m enough of an engineer to value documentation over marketing features.
No. Parameter settings are unique per each smart switch. They are not synced. Binding two switches together is not a ‘cloning’ function. Binding causes ‘commands’ on the source switch to be replicated on destination switches that are bound to it. That means things like on/off, Set Level. Dim Up/Dim Down. Toggle. etc.
To add a follow up question re: binding while we’re at it:
Can a tester/Inovelli confirm the binding behavior when sending a zigbee command to the switch via the controller/hub? E.g. If I bind the switch to a Hue bulb and issue a “turn on” command to the switch via my controller, will the bulb turn on with it?
I would have thought this would be obvious behavior (like zwave associations work), but I have a GE Zigbee switch that I’ve been using for testing that does not have this behavior- it will only respect the binding when manually operating the switch. Just wanted to confirm in case this is normal zigbee behavior I was unaware of. Thanks!
I got you.
Check out the first part of the video - I am using an On/Off command to the switch and it turns off all 13 bulbs 
Additionally, commands from BOTH switches can control a zigbee light locally OR communicate equal things to the hub, so both would act on non-load items identically. It’s basically the most flexible version. Said another way with aux you ONLY can do the scenes of the main switch, but with another blue you can do identical OR different actions based on the different switch tap count/direction combo’s.
I think the product page is best as new customers are going to look their first when shopping around. Also, I think your product page is incomplete or has an error. The description just ends mid sentence:
Perfect - thanks Eric! Unsure why my GE switch would behave differently, but I suppose that’s the wild west part of the ZigBee protocol vs wave ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks @kreene1987, @ThreeFN and @JimK – I’ll do some brainstorming on how to best tackle this. One of the drawbacks of BigCommerce (the platform we use) is that the theme is a custom one, so the product pages can be tricky to edit. I’ll finagle with it and see what I can come up with. Appreciate the input!
Also, thanks @JimK for the call-out. There was apparently a character limit so it just stopped completing the sentence 
. Anyway, I fixed it, so it should be good now!
Great question and I think @kreene1987 and @mamber answered it better then I could.
I do want to add some points of clarity and apologies if I’m misinterpreting their answers:
The one I’m not positive on, which we can test is what @mamber was talking about in that when 2x switches are bound, only certain events are passed on.
@mamber or @kreene1987 – do you know what happens if someone sets up the default brightness on Smart Switch A to 20% and then sets a time value via their hub for this to work between the hours of 10pm and 6am and they turn on Smart Switch B (which is bound to Switch A)? I’m assuming the behavior is that Switch A would follow the rules it set up for itself bc Switch B is simply sending an, “on” command, but I’ve honestly never tested this.
Lol, all good – it’s you engineers that keep this marketing guy who likes to tinker on his toes 
Alright, let me work on this and then post it here for review. Give me a few days as I need to finish up the aux switch manual ASAP for UL.
Yeah if I’m being honest, the manual is the hardest part of the process, but IMO the most important as not only do you have people such as yourself who are extremely intelligent in how things work, but you also have to dumb it down enough so that people like me can understand it in a more practical sense.
What makes it difficult is thinking through all the angles of how people can perceive the manual and writing it in a way that everyone can understand. The only way to make everyone happy IMO is to have it hosted online where you can have a TLDR at the top for the people who want to skim and/or don’t particularly care about all the details, followed by the more nitty-gritty details.
The other thing that I try to keep in mind is perception and this is where my marketing bias comes in for better or worse. What I don’t want to have happen is someone who’s never heard of us before land on a product page and go, “oh boy, that is a wall of text and visuals… I just wanted a light switch – this seems to be too much for me” and bounce over to our competition.
Hence the balance (and dilemma) of the page needing to look simple as to not overwhelm ppl, but also informative enough for people to make a decision and understand the complexities of the switch.
Long story short, I truly value the input from all sides and am constantly trying to improve the product pages as well as the community knowledge-base. So, thank you for the input!
Lol, who knows – maybe you could ask them (Jasco) for a firmware update 
(too soon?)
Project Update: Ok, everyone, finally some good news… we received an email and verbal confirmation that UL has approved everything and pending a factory inspection, we have officially passed certification 
Next steps are for them to deliver the report by next Friday (the 15th) and setup a factory inspection. Now that we’ve received the official green-light from UL, the manufacturer feels more comfortable with scheduling a production date (we were going to start at the end of July/beginning of August regardless, but this makes us feel better and more confident) which I will get next week.
We ran into a little snafu with the Connected Standards Alliance (just a paperwork issue, don’t worry – it was our first time) in that we signed up for the wrong membership level. I was getting nervous because we passed the certification test a while ago but we weren’t listed on their site. Turns out you have to pay more money, yay. Anyway, you should be seeing our stuff pop up on their site within a couple weeks, just in time for production.
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Overall, a great week amidst the setback from last time. We are now officially in the home stretch. I will continue to keep everyone posted on the official production date as well as a more locked down delivery date as I know more.
Thank you for your patience and let’s bring this home!
Each smart switch will honor it’s own default brightness level when turned on (from off). Tested during beta and worked great. Even different ramping levels were honored if specified separately. One would still send the “on” to the other though.
Is this only when controlling a smart bulb?
I’m curious how this is possible when controlling a dumb bulb.
Ex:
If Switch B has a default value of 50%, but Switch A has a default value of 20%, are you saying that Switch B would override Switch A if it is pressed?
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This is why I love beta testing and developing w/the community – as everyone can see, even we don’t have all the answers!
EDIT: it’s harder to explain than my original statement (which may have been misleading). 
It changes somewhat if we are talking about switches bound to switches and switches bound to smart bulbs or dumb bulbs and different combinations of them all.
I think the main point is that Binding is not Cloning. Settings on one switch don’t automatically override or get copied to the other switch. Cluster commands get bound, not parameters or settings.
However, “Set Level” is a command, so if Switch B sets a certain level and it’s bound to switch A with the Level Control Cluster, then switch A will move that level. Switch A does not change its default parameter setting but it will move to the level that switch B specified in its Set Level command…assuming it is bound to the Level Control Cluster.
where did you start looking for this information and what can I do to make it easier to find
The product page is fine. One thing I’d like to see for all switches is the physical dimensions. E.g. the GE 14291 requires 1.4" deep, 2.8" high, 1.6" wide for its “smart guts” inside the electrical box, not including wires. Are these switches bigger? smaller? I had problems fitting the GE one in existing switch boxes at a home wired in the early 70s.
I didn’t find this information here or on any product pages.
I have questions about the Blue Series switch in regards to no-neutral usage. The Red Series states a bypass is required if the load is <25W if you don’t have a neutral. However, the Blue Series page states that if there is no neutral, a bypass is required, and doesn’t give an exception for loads >25W. So:
If have no neutral, do I need a bypass for the Blue Series switch even if the load is >25W? Or can I skip the bypass if my load is >25W, like the Red Series can?
Are there any other features that are lost when wiring in a no-neutral way? The only one I’ve found is the loss of power monitoring, but I’m curious if any other features are lost.
What is the max wattage rating for fluorescent bulbs? A no-neutral single-gang I’d like to use is powering 384W fluorescent + 9W LED and I want to make sure I am within the expected UL ratings.
I’d like to know the answers to these questions before committing to an order. Thanks.
Ah, good question and thanks for bringing this up. Looks like I have some cleaning up to do for consistency.
We decided to play it safe this time and just recommend a bypass because oftentimes people will either not read about the 25W limit or they take a chance and skimp out on buying one. Either way results in an angry email to customer service that usually says something like, “you said it works w/out a neutral wire, now you’re telling me I have to purchase a $15 part to make it work?!”
So, rather than putting a limit and making it confusing, we just said that it’s required. Many of the competitors (Lutron and GE) require them (in fact, Lutron puts them in the box sometimes) so we thought we’d follow suit.
Off the record, some of our beta testers as well as myself have gotten the non-neutral to work at the 10W mark. But other times, I couldn’t get it to work until the 15-20W mark with a different LED. This is also one of the reasons we just went with the blanket, “you need a bypass” statement.
To answer your questions:
Off the record, yes you can likely skip the bypass if it’s over 25W.
Power monitoring and the ability to use the switch in a 3-Way+ setting with a dumb switch (ie: an aux switch is required).
Hmmm… good question, let me get back on that one!
No worries, happy to help!
I found the same results. I have a blue connected to a 10W LED without a bypass. I had to test several bulbs in that range before I found one that worked. Are you starting a new bulb compatibility list? 
What are the symptoms of “not working” here? Just generally “won’t boot/work at all” or are we talking “works, except sometimes is flaky” or “reboots when you turn the light on or off”?
I’m hoping the trickle draw of leaving it in smart bulb mode with a couple installed smart bulbs will do the trick…
Boot loops. The switch doesn’t get enough power.
