Just wondering if anybody can tell me whether or not there are any technical benefits to these over the old red series on/off switches? I’ve got three running fans and will likely replace one which is running a ceiling fan in 3 way (for scene control at the aux switch), but it’s not clear to me that there’s a benefit to replacing the two running exhaust fans, which are single speed and so just need on/off. I have no need for the additional scene controls or the larger LED bar in those use cases. I think I’m just as well off with the reds I have but just figured I’d double check. TIA!
Good article, but caveat is that many consumer routers/APs particularly mesh do not always pick the standard 1,6 or 11 wifi channels and/or they use 40Mghz mode (to unnecessarily increase 2.4ghz throughput). too many of those systems do not provide manual override of automatic channel selection.
Project Update: Just got word from the manufacturer that all certifications are completed (ETL, FCC/IC, CSA/Zigbee) and they have a manufacturing facility audit scheduled for August 20th for ETL to come ensure the production run is setup correctly and follows its standards.
There is a tentative production run scheduled for August 24th pending the audit passes (they are not worried). Production will last about 2 weeks give or take a few days.
From there, it takes about a month to get to our HQ in Michigan. So, right now, we’re looking at a late September, early October delivery to your house.
I sent out an email and will continue to send them out bi-weekly until they are delivered to everyone.
We’re in the home stretch and thanks everyone for your patience!
Love the red and blue dimmers and even the Aux switches, but I just dont get the reason for these fan switches, can someone enlighten me please ? I mean the red fan switch seemed great since it controlled a fan and light but these are just basically for bathroom fans ?
So there is a couple of scenarios that people have in their homes and each scenario requires a different solution.
Scenario #1 - Fan Only Switch
There are a couple of ways this scenario comes to life.
You have one, “dumb” switch that can control both your fan and lights
You have two separate switches that control your fan and lights
Either way, in this scenario, you have a 14/3 (or 12/3) Romex line that comes down from the fan to the gang-box (ie: a cable that has a black, white, red and ground wire in it).
In this scenario, you have access to both the fan and light portion because you have two load wires that are coming into the gang-box (ie: the black wire could be for the fan and the red wire for the light or vice versa)
You would use the fan switch to control the fan speeds and a separate smart switch (preferably an Inovelli 2-1) to control the lights. If you only had one switch prior, you’d have to cut into the wall to extend your 1 gang-box to a 2 gang-box.
Scenario #2 - Fan/Light Switch
This scenario is when you have a 14/2 (or 12/2) cable coming down from the fan (ie: only a black, white and ground wire). Typically in this scenario, your current, “dumb” switch only turns on the light and you use a pull-string to turn on and adjust the fan speeds (or vice versa where your switch turns on the fan and you use a pull-string on the fan to turn on the light)
In this scenario, since you don’t have two load wires (ie: the black and red wires) you will have to put a canopy module up in the fan that will turn your switch that only controls one thing (ie: either the fan or the light) into a switch that can control both.
How this works is you put a canopy module in the fan and your switch at the wall will send a digital signal to the canopy module to turn on the fan and light separately.
Bathroom fans generally just have a single speed (or, at least aren’t usually speed-controlled at the switch) and, therefore, just need a simple on/off switch with a physical relay rated for motors (something still missing from the Inovelli blue series catalog, I believe).
Any thoughts on timeline to Matter? Given the matter and thread source code is already open sourced, any thoughts on open sourcing for the matter implementation (it seems you have many devices where matter is a promised feature, but work hasn’t started - presumably because you’re a bit resource constrained with the new products you guys are designing - maybe that’s a way to get this going).
Or how about a device-specific feature list? Here would be mine (pretty basic)
Avoid wherever possible vendor-specific / non-standard features so this can work across Apple Home / Google Home / HomeAssistant
You likely already know this, but for other’s who don’t, a cool feature of Matter, which I don’t think has an equivalent in Zigbee, is that Matter has a special “Mode Select” device type (0x0027) and cluster (0x0050) that you can use to define and access “special features” in a standardized way (by defining a control label and a list of selectable items). A device can have many of these “mode select” clusters, so you can use them for each of the “special” features that, today, require a custom attribute or other custom way to access. For example, you could define the label “Device Type” with choices “On/Off Only” and “3-Speed”.
All indicator lights are implemented as if they were RGB bulbs on their own endpoints (allow control from Apple / Google in a standardized way. This is something that could have been done in Zigbee and Z-wave, but most vendors seem to have just gone a non-standard route when it comes to controlling indicators. Its been a missed opportunity to have devices work in a more consistent / standard way.
^^ that’s pretty much it - Consistency is a key feature to me - I just want to see a device that works across the several platforms that I and others are using as my home already combines Apple Home, Google Home, HomeAssistant (using Beta Matter support), and Hubitat (waiting for theirs) without having to wait for a custom driver (or, in the case of Apple / Google, where customizing isn’t really possible).
(and PS - I’d welcome the opportunity to be an early tester for these when you are implementing support. I’ve written quite a few drivers for Hubitat devices, and am also using HomeAssistant, so I have a reasonable idea where problems crop up in using the devices for “real” use cases / rule writing / etc. for the various automation types like Rule Machine on Hubitat and automations on HomeAssistant).
When the fan controller is configured as a multi-speed controller for ceiling fans, how do you interact with it by default? Do you press and hold the up/down as you do for a dimmer to increase/decrease the fan speed? Does the LED indicator bar indicate the speed setting you’re on? Assuming the LED indicator bar does indicate, does it just show static amounts (like 1/3 of the bar for low, 2/3 for medium, full for high)?
I’m hoping someone who has been beta testing this can give me a quick run down on how you control it, and on how it indicates the setting.
Yes to all of that. Tap up to turn on at the last speed, tap down to turn off. Press and hold to speed up or slow down. LED bar indicates low, medium and high in thirds.
Everything @Bry said is correct and I would like to add that there is a setting that controls the LED bar display levels. It defaults to 3 levels (thirds) but can be changed. Note that it is still limited to 3 physical speeds with a standard AC fan. The other levels would typically be used with Smart Fans that support more than 3 speeds
I honestly think about it daily! And I’m leaning towards a test drive with the 2-1 switch, but more to come on that in the next couple weeks.
The internal struggle I have (as well as others on the team) is that if we did come out with a Matter switch now, it wouldn’t support anything exciting (notifications, scene control, etc) and in order to pull that off, my understanding is that we’d have to have our own app (which is a beast in and of itself) as none of the major companies are going to support these features (they won’t need to).
But I think a basic switch is great to test out to see what the demand actually is. Luckily these Blue Series switches have the same hardware so we won’t have a ton of R&D costs outside of firmware development.
I am a firm believer in Matter and I think if we play our cards right, it could really put us in mass market, where I want to be. But I need to convince our COO who I brought on to specifically keep me in check (I’ve made the mistake in the past of spreading myself too thin and coming out with projects that were high risk with a nominal return). I had a long discussion with him last week and he’s in board for a test run and I’ve gotten quotes to develop the firmware and they are reasonable so I think we will move forward.
Anyway, I know I detailed this simple question, but wanted to give some more perspective.
Net: I don’t have a timeline for the fan switch Matter firmware, but I have pushed and succeeded to get the green light for the 2-1 which I hope does well. But it will have very basic firmware.
Yeah this is a tough sell and one I’ve gone back and forth on too. Is there a way to open source without exposing the source code? I can’t imagine there is but if so that would be awesome.
I would hate to put all this work into a switch only for it to be sold for 1/2 the cost by a random company from China.
Agree!
I didn’t know this actually - maybe we can connect and discuss further? The other Eric may know this, but my wheelhouse is marketing… And by marketing I mean taking all the “nerd” speak and turning it into a message that people like me can understand
But in all seriousness, this is one of the things that has kept me up at night when it comes to Matter. I need it to support the features that set us apart right now. We’re never going to win the battle with the big companies on pricing, we just don’t have the scale to do so. However, where we shine is doing what those companies could care less about, and that’s developing a highly customizable product.
I’ve convinced myself that the non-Home Assistant, Hubitat and even SmartThings people may not put as much weight into these customizations and therefore we would be ok coming out with a more basic switch. But again, the risk there is the more basic it is, the easier it is to copy and then it’s a pricing game. While branding certainly plays a part in the purchasing decision, it only really carries weight for people who know of us already and believe in what we’re trying to do. For new people, if they see essentially the same switch but for half the cost, they’ll choose based on price. I don’t blame them, I’d do the same.
This is interesting - I think we should have the ability to do this already via an automation and if we could pull it off in Matter, that would be cool.
Do you know if there’s an equivalent to Zigbee Binding or Z-Wave Association with Thread/Matter?
Can you shoot me a PM? I’d love to hear your thoughts and I appreciate your time writing this up.
So would you be ok with a basic smart switch if it worked across all platforms (genuine question)?
My thoughts initially, and what I asked the manufacturer to quote us on was a very basic firmware, but to build in the ability to configure select parameters from the switch (like we do now for hubs that don’t support parameter changes). This would include things like, min/max dim level, ramp rate, etc - basically things that allow the most compatibility with light bulbs.
Yes 100%. This works for me as is, but add in a quality company, committed to customer service, multiple switch colors to match my current installs, dimmers and (when available through Matter) adding features as they move forward I am all in. Your price is already in line with the limited Matter Switches (including Wi-Fi) on the market that come close to the above and far and away above the limited competition with Matter over Thread.
Add me in to the list of those happy to help as a beta tester. I have multiple Matter over Wi-Fi Leviton wall switches and a few Eve Matter over Thread switches (no dimmer or other than white faceplates available).
The question of building an Inovelli app to handle in Matter the advanced configs that Zigbee/zwave allow will remain, but you will a year or 2 to cross that bridge if you feel it is required. New customers buying Matter over Thread from you will not expect them, because no else can do that either.
Project update: Production has started and it is anticipated to be completed the second week of September. I’m excited to get this completed and in your hands (including mine bc I’m using all beta units before the MG24 chip was introduced lol).
