I have also had a similar issue with an S2 black switch in a 3-way with a dumb switch. After reading this and several other threads about it, I did a little more targeted trouble shooting.
Setup:
Black S2
Line and load in the same box
Dumb switch
All wired correctly
A single LED non-dimmable bulb during testing described below (also previously exhibited the confused behavior with a single CFL bulb).
First I confirmed that the S2 was confused, then I tried to control it with the Z-Wave hub. It did not respond to most commands and those that did were sluggish. So sluggish that it could not execute the “flash” command.
At this point, I excluded the switch from my mesh and then performed a factory reset of the switch. Then I was able to switch it manually dozens of times, then the dumb switch dozens of times. The S2 switch worked just fine regardless of the dumb switch’s position.
Based on previous posts about switching the dumb switch rapidly, I gave that a shot next. When switching it rapidly I could hear the relay in the S2 change position. More rapid switching of the dumb switch and the S2 relay would change position again. Doing this an odd number of times would put the S2 relay in an “other than factory” state. This is when the S2 was completely confused. It would not respond to its paddle switch being pressed. A few times it would eventually respond by switching the relay after leaving it alone for some time. Sometimes it would switch, then switch right back. Most of the time the status indicating LED was out of sync with the state of the relay. After having established that the S2 was thoroughly confused, I went back to the dumb switch and changed its position. The S2 was still thoroughly confused and “couldn’t tell which end was up” regardless of the dumb switch’s position.
However, after 1 more rapid switching of the dumb switch to trigger the relay in the S2 to change state (putting it back in the “as factory reset” position / sync), the S2’s proper function was completely restored. It responds to manual paddle switching as quickly as ever, and responds to the dumb switch just fine. Both switches worked flawlessly in any combination of positions.
Hopefully this information will help with the diagnosis and fix…
In the meantime, I’ll just have to make sure that the dumb switch isn’t rapidly switched (or partially switched slowly enough to simulate a rapid switching). Or perhaps swap out the dumb switch for an aux switch, although not requiring an aux switch is 100% of the reason why I purchased the Inovelli switches in the first place. I expect hat all my other S2 black switches in 3 and 4 way setups (with dumb switches) will likely behave exactly the same should anyone ever slow toggle or rapidly switch any of their respective dumb switches…
Sorry to report that I spoke too soon. Although the switch was working perfectly while testing, after it sat undisturbed for a couple of hours, it went right back to being loony-tunes.
Hopefully a fix is coming soon… But in the meantime, that zone has to work and has to respond immediately so I guess it will have to have an Aux switch swapped in to replace the dumb switch. Unfortunate because it completely negates the market advantage that the Inovelli switches “had”.
Thanks Grimmer for sharing your experience. @Eric_Inovelli are there any updates you can share with us? This thread was started by you to gather info and keep us in the loop, even if that’s just saying you don’t have any updates…
I have a 10 inovelli switch, 2 red series dimmer, 4 red series on/off & 4 black series on/off switch. I’m having the same problem with all switch not responding when activated with my existing dumb switch and this is common in my 3 way & 4 way configurations. I’m really disappointed as this is the only reason I purchased these switch to keep my house in stock wiring configuration.
~40-50 foot run between the line in and the last light
If my dumb switches are in a certain configuration then I can turn the lights on/off from the inovelli switch, if I flip either of the dumb switches then the lights go out and I can hear a relay flip on the inovelli switch, when I flip the dumb switch again, nothing happens. If I then go to the inovelli switch and toggle the power, a relay clicks on and then immediately off again. Swapping the dumb 3 way switch out at the start makes everything work properly again.
I have a red series dimmer in another part of the house that controls a very similar 4 way setup, so it sounds like I may just need to go that route for all of my 3/4 way setups. I will make at least one more attempt at another part of the house with some 3 ways, but I’m not optimistic. Fortunately I can still use plenty of 2 way switches, just bummed the dumb switch integration doesn’t work since it was a major selling point for me.
Just a guess here. I know the Black series performs an automatic one way / 3-Way configuration on power up. I’ve not used one yet so as I said this is a guess.
I don’t know when this automatic process occurs but I would assume on first power up. I also I don’t know if the position of the 3-Way matters.
I would:
Factory reset the device, remove power and re-power.
And if that didn’t work, I would change the position of the 3-way and repeat.
@JohnRob thanks for the pointers! I’ve used 3 switches now, 2 blacks and 1 red on/off and they all operate in the same manner. I haven’t factory reset any, but I can.
When you say change the position of the 3 way, what do you mean? I have it wired like this
I was suggesting literally changing the paddle on one of the 3-Way switches before repowering.
I don’t know if this will help but my logic is. The load will be on either the Inovelli “Load” terminal or on the “Traveler” terminal depending on the position of the 3-Way. What if the Inovelli switch needs or recognized the operation better if the power up occurs when the load is on the “Traveler”. Here I’m thinking in a normal single way configuration the load would be on the Inovelli “load” terminal.
I wanted to close the loop on this. I ended up ordering one of the red dimmers and by setting AC Power type (21) to neutral (1) and Switch Type (22) to Muli Switch (Dumb Switch) (1) everything is working correctly. I was able to repurpose my black on/offs to some 3 ways in other parts of the house where they function as expected.
I just want to say thanks for this. I troubleshot and current tested all of my wires just to make sure I wasn’t crazy but couldn’t get it to work properly
I went through the config parameters (setting parameter 22/13 to 1 for dumb second switch), but the instructions show using a neutral (setting 1 for parameter 21/12) was supposed to be default.
I just went through and manually set param 21/12 to 1, and it fixed my problem of lights not toggling on unless dumb second switch was in up position. Now they both operate appropriately. No idea why the instructions say that setting 1 is default, which it clearly isn’t… at least on my switch.
So thanks… hopefully they can reprint instructions or change default firmware to match so that other new customers don’t spend 2-3 hours troubleshooting something that isn’t wrong…
Ok, I have read through this whole thread and I have to say I’m confused if there is a solution. I have the same issue as everyone else. When the dumb switch is on the smart switch works. When the dumb switch is off the smart switch doesn’t work. However, in my case using an incandescent bulb has the same issues.
Red series switch (LZW30-SN)
3-Way
Line/load in separate boxes
Single bulb
40W incandescent
maybe 10 foot run
I have checked the wiring and it is correct. I’ve also updated my device handlers to the latest (the last commit was Aug 14th).
John, thanks for the reply. When the dumb switch is off the led is working. In fact, I can still change the paddle and it seems it’s working properly but just not turning the bulb on. I have different led levels for on & off and the led does change appropriately and I hear the click. Also, I can still use the app to switch it on/off and they led changes and I hear the click. The bulb just never turns on. Also I just noticed, when the dumb switch is off and I turn off the smart switch then try to turn on the dumb switch the bulb stays off. So it appears that both the dumb switch and smart switch must be in the on position to get the bulb to turn on.
I have attached the wiring diagram I’m using. One other thing to note, this is actually the second LZW30-SN I’ve used in this location and with this wiring. The first was working properly once I got an led bulb that worked until it completely died (literally no led, click or communication with the hub at all). This one is the replacement that was sent after the RMA process.
Has this issue been fixed in any way? I have the same kind of problem with ON/OFF switch, tested with a black one and red series one. The difference is that I have 2 light bulbs connected after the dumb switch, when I use the switch with non-dimmable LED lights, it works if the dumb switch is on but when it is off, I have to push the on paddle and then off paddle for the light to change state. On then off will turn on the light, on and then off will turn off the light.
It is worst with dimmable LED lights requiring 3 paddle clicks for each state change. But if I put incandescent bulbs, all is working as expected. Is there a way to force 3-way config with neutral and dumb switch. I can configure it using either smartthings or hubitat.
I had the problem with a black series firmware 1.20, I’ll recheck the new switch I put in place since I had to swap in order to conduct more tests.
I now have it working with some new LED bulbs (amazon basics non-dimmable but new generation) and it works. I had another ON/OFF switch in a 3-way setup with a fluo-compact bulb that was working and wanted to replace it with the same LED bulb I has success with on the one I just installed but this one does not work.
Next step is to upgrade all the firmware of all Inovelli switches I have here, do you recommend I use the latest official firmware or the latest beta?
